"This was on the radio today
Aimee Mann - One"
National Identities?
Hey guys,
I´m actually just preparing my final exam (teachers degree), which also incorporates the question of “intercultural qualification”
I came across an article about European identity – if it exists, how it ought to be encouraged and so on. The author questioned if Europeans knew enough about other European countries.
Then I got pretty curious, asked myself what I knew about different cultures. I mean, I travelled a lot, took part in exchanging programms and so on. But see, I shared life with a French family in my teenage years for I think two months. And yes, I saw differences to my family life at home, but it really didn´t seem to me being caused in ethnic or nationality, but just in being another family than mine ;)
I am browsing my brain, but nothing will come to me – what might be “typical” for Frensh, Spanish, Portugueses, Irish? What could you call a cultural heritage? What historical influences might have been really important to the development of traditions? Are there any cultural behaviours, other nations could not understand/could misunderstand?
I am thinking about “the Germans” and nothing would come to me. I only know the stereotype, being organized, loving punctuality and beer. Hum, then I am not a German.
Of course, what still – and maybe always will – influences Germany is the “guilt of 2nd world war”. And – what I can just tell about many many I know, which is always the same, in profile, is maybe an intense interest in “social things” to give it that wide term. I mean, helping children, animals, the interest in helping in developing countries and so on. But – most of the time I realized it´s not that steady. Personal life still comes first, after a time the child centre is not that important anymore, they already have done sth, you know? But I just guess this is NOT a German “quality”.
I see in all the German education systems a lack of wide spread politic interest. I think there is a focus only on European history and politics. But – I guess – also not typical German, but this also counts for other European countries.
Well, it´s just I DON´T KNOW.
Could anyone tell out of experience, or just in a good way of selfreflection tell, what might be cultural heritage for this or that nation?
I am REALLY INTERESTED in all nations here. Who can give a profile about Chineses for example, besides “basical knowledge” as “very kind, not straight forward”?
I only experienced alien culture for me while staying 3 month in East Africa, Uganda. Real family life meaning generations living together, caring for each other – all the income was for the WHOLE family. There was a familyhead (who really got/used this term) and who was responsible for each question, who had to organize what´s best for the whole family. And the hierarchy was not to violate, which I by the way did, not knowing it. Having a question, a problem? Don´t you ask the leading members of the family, but start addressing the maid or children. They will move the case forward to whom it concerns.
Being loved as a mother is caused in “she gave birth to me” but not in the way like “what she did good to me, she is a good person” or stuff like that. Giving birth really was the point of getting respect. For me that seemed and still is strange, always thinking in ways of feminism … but in their way of thinking it is NOT degrading, I should always keep that in mind.
Ha, talking a lot.
So, if anyone made it through my chitchat, I really would be interested in your feelings – do we have national identities? Could you put those in words? As I CAN´T, I would love to hear it from other nations.
I´m actually just preparing my final exam (teachers degree), which also incorporates the question of “intercultural qualification”
I came across an article about European identity – if it exists, how it ought to be encouraged and so on. The author questioned if Europeans knew enough about other European countries.
Then I got pretty curious, asked myself what I knew about different cultures. I mean, I travelled a lot, took part in exchanging programms and so on. But see, I shared life with a French family in my teenage years for I think two months. And yes, I saw differences to my family life at home, but it really didn´t seem to me being caused in ethnic or nationality, but just in being another family than mine ;)
I am browsing my brain, but nothing will come to me – what might be “typical” for Frensh, Spanish, Portugueses, Irish? What could you call a cultural heritage? What historical influences might have been really important to the development of traditions? Are there any cultural behaviours, other nations could not understand/could misunderstand?
I am thinking about “the Germans” and nothing would come to me. I only know the stereotype, being organized, loving punctuality and beer. Hum, then I am not a German.
Of course, what still – and maybe always will – influences Germany is the “guilt of 2nd world war”. And – what I can just tell about many many I know, which is always the same, in profile, is maybe an intense interest in “social things” to give it that wide term. I mean, helping children, animals, the interest in helping in developing countries and so on. But – most of the time I realized it´s not that steady. Personal life still comes first, after a time the child centre is not that important anymore, they already have done sth, you know? But I just guess this is NOT a German “quality”.
I see in all the German education systems a lack of wide spread politic interest. I think there is a focus only on European history and politics. But – I guess – also not typical German, but this also counts for other European countries.
Well, it´s just I DON´T KNOW.
Could anyone tell out of experience, or just in a good way of selfreflection tell, what might be cultural heritage for this or that nation?
I am REALLY INTERESTED in all nations here. Who can give a profile about Chineses for example, besides “basical knowledge” as “very kind, not straight forward”?
I only experienced alien culture for me while staying 3 month in East Africa, Uganda. Real family life meaning generations living together, caring for each other – all the income was for the WHOLE family. There was a familyhead (who really got/used this term) and who was responsible for each question, who had to organize what´s best for the whole family. And the hierarchy was not to violate, which I by the way did, not knowing it. Having a question, a problem? Don´t you ask the leading members of the family, but start addressing the maid or children. They will move the case forward to whom it concerns.
Being loved as a mother is caused in “she gave birth to me” but not in the way like “what she did good to me, she is a good person” or stuff like that. Giving birth really was the point of getting respect. For me that seemed and still is strange, always thinking in ways of feminism … but in their way of thinking it is NOT degrading, I should always keep that in mind.
Ha, talking a lot.
So, if anyone made it through my chitchat, I really would be interested in your feelings – do we have national identities? Could you put those in words? As I CAN´T, I would love to hear it from other nations.
Tags: culture, identity, national, tradition
Views: 22
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Morgana on -
...
Maša, I think this was a really good point somehow, I liked it: that we don´t have to feel like Slovenians, Germans and so on maybe ourselves, but know how the others see us.
Orodromeus said national identity is more a construct. It maybe is a construct, and consists of - what has been said here, in first row of the language, which is special for every culture (there even are so many dialects, so that you see yourself as Welsh first eg). You don´t have to like you "national heritage"; but know it, I think. What you make with all that knowlege, defines your individual identity then.
Oh man, there is too much for me now ;) I can´t find a central line in my head anymore. So I should stop by now ;)
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Permalink Reply by orodromeus on -
traumcave ulrike said:
A quote from that article that saves me the time of writing that, that's what I had in mind anyway :) :France Tries to Define Frenchness
By ALAN COWELL Published: November 13, 2009
"PARIS — Ascending, and descending, the Eiffel Tower the other day, it seemed a fitting moment to reflect on what a nation’s soaring prestigious attractions say about the country itself and the people who live there."
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/14/world/europe/14iht-letter.html?_r...
"More broadly, Europe’s puzzling over immigration pits a British notion of mutliculturalism, which holds that immigrants may cleave to their own cultures and traditions, against a French insistence on integration, demanding that outsiders conform to French norms of secularism and cultural uniformity."
Indeed, having lived in both countries, this is how these two think.
There is an effort in France to integrate minorities in the rest of the nation's population, to blend in, through the passage of language, some history and some of the values that the country protects. It's not as negative as it sounds, often it can be done through positive actions i education. But it can be tricky, as minorities might feel that their very double identities, their belonging to their country of origin and their country of adoption, is being menaced. And it can result to ministries being named "Ministry of immigration and national identity" (what a horrible name!).
In the UK/USA, minorities are left to deal with their own business, grow as they wish, talk as they wish, act as they wish in the lands of individual freedom. Different cultures coexist, cross each other in the street, but do not really know each other. Over time you can have a true crucible (eg black and Irish music combining to form rock and roll), but most often you don't, resulting in the government having to take measures such as "affirmative action", translated as "positive discrimination" in French (what a horrible name too), in order for all warring minorities to be represented equally.
The "melting pot" (France, and a concept that failed in theUSA) versus the "mixed salad" (UK, USA).
Morgana said:
Exactly how I feel!...And I only answered to ONE interesting post. Am eager to read more. If it ends up to be a totally different discussion as I planned - who cares, it´s wonderful - and as we live in such a flexible global world, we would never dare NOT BEING FLEXIBLE, right? *g*
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Permalink Reply by sh on -
I think you need to decide on a particular time, and then a place. There is so much available, and it can take you too far beyond what you are looking for.
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Permalink Reply by Morgana on
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Just read "pigeons in the grass" from Koeppen...
He/a character mentions: that nationalities are only an accident - you might be born somewhere, but it doesn´t matter. In coherence with history he mentions it because he said: maybe also the THIRD REICH only was a coincidence... maybe everything is, like nationality. So how could anyone be so proud of its nationality that he has to fight for it? Especially in this book... everyone who flew from the Naziregime, cause he/she had "bad luck" to be born "wrong"... they just changed their nationality by exile...
It´s late, don´t find the words. But like the ideas in the book, everything is like pigeons in the grass... not important, just there, a lot of... which could be anywhere else, too.
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Permalink Reply by orodromeus on
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From The English Patient (the film):
THE PATIENT
(brittle)
Why are people always so happy when
they collide with someone from the same
place? What happened in Montreal when
you passed a man in the street - did you
invite him to live with you?
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Permalink Reply by traumcave on -
orodromeus said:From The English Patient (the film):
THE PATIENT
(brittle)
Why are people always so happy when
they collide with someone from the same
place?
HAHA. love this. Sounds very much like the infamous Berlin 'friendliness' .
The "don't bug me and I won't bug you'. Has good sides too though sometimes.
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Permalink Reply by traumcave on
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Chapter 8, page 30 (engl.)
"It was only that everyone's natural resentment of everyone else's efforts to get ahead,
a resentment we all feel nowadays, had crystallized earlier in KAKANIA, where it can be said to have
assumed the form of a sublimated ceremonial rite, which could have had a great future had its development not been cut prematurely short by a catastrophe.
For it was not only the resentment of one's fellow citizens that had
become intensified there into a strong sense of community, even the
lack of faith in oneself and one's own fate took on the character of a
deep self-certainty. In this country one acted - sometimes to the
highest degree of passion and its consequences- differently from the way one
thought, or one thought differently from the way one
acted. Uninitiated observes have been mistaken this for charm, or even
for a weakness of what they thought to be the Austrian character. But
they were wrong; and it is always wrong to explain what happens in a
country by the character of its inhabitants. For the inhabitants of a
country has at least 9 characters: a professional, a national, a civic,
a class, a geographical, a sexual, a conscious, an unconscious, and possibly
even a private character to boot. He unites them in himself, but
dissolve him, so that he is really nothing more than a small basin
hollowed out by these many streamlets that trickle into it and drain
out of it again, to join other such rills in filling some other basin.
Which is why every inhabitant of the earth also has a tenth character
that is nothing else than the passive fantasy of spaces yet unfilled.
This permits a person all but one thing: to take seriously what his at
least 9 characters do and what happens to them; in other
words it prevents precisely what should be his true fulfillment."
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AH. This just took forever. I should have just made an audioboo.
Well, but written words are more romantic than an audio file, right ? =)
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Permalink Reply by traumcave on
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national Identity:
symbols
rites,
hymns and
national memorial days
Sat May 29, 9:15 am ET
WASHINGTON – More than just barbecues and family time, Memorial Day is the chance to honor members of the military who made the ultimate sacrifice on behalf of their country, President Barack Obama says.
---Obama: Memorial Day is time to honor fallen troops---
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Permalink Reply by Morgana on
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Yeah, remember that scene from Musil - you showed it to me when I visited you in Erfurt - or we listened together to that at night *hug*
I don´t feel for Exile-writers in that way either ... It was just so interesting in that book, that everyone just ended up somewhere else... like in modern society, where it´s a MUST to have been in a foreign country for a year or sth. Maybe ... just an INTENDED thougth - to supress strange ideas of fatal patriotism or nationalism? To face other cultures, mix them up ...
Hmmm, is it too late...? "and it is always wrong to explain what happens in a
country by the character of its inhabitants." -- But WHY should it be wrong? Isn´t it the inhabitants obligation to care for the "face" of its country? So ... the inhabitants IS the country (Am thinking about French revolution right now, nation is souvereign, not any lord or nobility!) and due to this one should explain history and all those things by inhabitants? Or..... ?
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Permalink Reply by Morgana on
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I am really upset - just read some comments on youtube - just click the Eurovision channel and the German Lena - 100 of comments like "NAZIS!" "HITLER" and so on. Same in sports - as soon as Germany gets some attention, it´s so easy to cry out loud we have a history. Would we ever dare to do so in other countries? Which one has a clean slate? As we had a great guilt, I think we are one of the few countries that really care about history and face up to it.
And yes, one has to deal with politics - a French flyer of the Revolution time (that´s what I mentioned) addressed "the good people" of France. My pupils just couldn´t understand who the good people are. Not a specific social class, but those who CARE, those, wo listen to everything what is going on around them, those who THINK about it and try to let their ideas join politic. The classical Greek utopia. Of course it´s a big demand, as everyone is kept in his own life, in his own country.... how to deal with even more? A tough task. To try it is better than nothing. But I wouldn´t say actually that in Germany the political sullenness is stronger than in others - the youth might be, but this is always the same - it will change, as soon as they live outside their little world, full of problems like "how to dress on the party tonight" ;) They are not finished yet *g*
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Permalink Reply by Martina Bedregal Calderón on -
I am half german, half irish, and I have lived and worked in Northern Africa, Peru, Ireland, Scotland and England. Dunno about my identity...lol, I guess I felt most at home in Tunisia, Scotland and Ireland. But I have felt and seen that people most European countries have a stronger identification with their country (especially Scotland and Ireland) than us here in Germany. After WW2 there was no more education that would support a national identity, and that is good, for history showed where that lead to in Germany.
I personally always had more migrant than german friends here, and living in other countries and cultures was an enrichment for me and my life. I see myself as a human being and inhabitant of this planet, not as german. And that way I also see others, no matter which nationality, religion or beleives they have. I still have friends from and in many countries all over the world.
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Permalink Reply by Martina Bedregal Calderón on
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Haha, I don´t like beer, I am not very organized, although I was born in Germany, but I definetly prefer Brazilian Feijoada or a scottish Haggis or CousCous before I eat german "Sauerkraut"....lol. I am a kind of christian-celtic buddhist, and my best pals are from Holland, Scotland, Peru, Denmark, USA and Africa..........
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